Middle Earth Ranger Forum

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03 ... ppersmiths

Totally legal in Indiana for bow season!

Very cool, and interesting article too.
I've been reading a lot into Numenor and the waves of migration in the First and Second Ages, and the more I think on it, the more I feel iron has been pretty standard for the 'well-connected' Mannish cultures (the ones with dwarf contacts) for at least the Third Age, maybe longer. Red metals--to me at least--are really starting to feel like a better fit for Haladin-descended, pre-Numenorean folks like the Men of the White Mountains and early Dunlendings...plus Arnor during the war with Angmar (barrow-blades).
There's a line somewhere about how the later (more imperial) Numenoreans returned to Middle-earth only to find that they were being attacked by people with iron weapons--whom they had taught about iron in the first place.

In my own Beorning kit, I've been playing with the line between Iron and Bronze Ages by using iron to recreate items which were originally (in our history) made of bronze.

Neat!

I've a dim memory of reading some obscure note somewhere that the Westernesse learned the art of iron-working while on Numenor (which fits in w/Udwin's reference about the Numenoreans introducing it to the tribes of Eriador) ... and that the barrow-wight was once a prince of Cardolan, which implies that iron was at least known before that particular barrow was filled. But since in our own world bronze and iron tools existed alongisde each other for quite some time, and authors are known to shift things about a bit over the decades for consistency... I have no idea what that means for Barrows or Beornings.

Originally I was thinking the introduction of metal to the various native tribes of the Americas through the 17th-19th centuries might have been a good yardstick to guess things by - say as a reference European trade knives with their handles carved in native patterns and carried in quilled sheaths, that kind of thing.

... But on reflection that's not a particularly good analogy. In our own world, the American native tribes immediately jumped at the chance for refined metals, even cutting apart wagon rims and cookpots for arrow points as soon as they could get their hands on them.

In contrast, the near-absence of metal in Beorn's home seems to be a question of preference rather than availability.
(shades perhaps of our old stories about the faery and their dislike of iron?)

I'm not certain what that means for styling though.

First.. is the "not much metal" cultural tic Beorn's alone, or all Beornings generally? If the latter case... I imagine if they didn't like metal around, they probably had no mining/refining/forging craftsmen of their own and traded for what they needed. That does imply a the "foreign blades in native haftings / sheaths" model still may carry weight.

But I've no idea.

Regardless - neat article!

Very interesting! I can see how copper was abandoned in favor of flint-knapped projectile point like they state in the article. It doesn't seem to me with the softness of copper that it would hold much of an edge for repeated use but I'm not much of a metallurgist. It does have a particularly pseudo-Bronze Age flavor to it for our purposes like Udwin states!

I think copper and bronze probably fits very well for a dunlending persona, tho with some iron (mostly knives, and axes). Same could be said for what i think is a pre-haladin population in the Edenwaith, the barbaric fisherfolk wandering the coast. They would probably mostly be limited to flint and stone tools, and maybe coppar. Have you guys read Tal-Elmar, those people are probably a Gondorian precursor to these fisherfolk.

Darnokthemage wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 8:00 pm I think copper and bronze probably fits very well for a dunlending persona, tho with some iron (mostly knives, and axes). Same could be said for what i think is a pre-haladin population in the Edenwaith, the barbaric fisherfolk wandering the coast. They would probably mostly be limited to flint and stone tools, and maybe coppar. Have you guys read Tal-Elmar, those people are probably a Gondorian precursor to these fisherfolk.

Agreed that copper and bronze feel appropriate for Dunlendings, with some iron as you say (Thorin's folks lived in Dunland for about 30 years, so presumably they would have done some forging or iron-trade during their time).
The web of footnotes from the later writings get confusing, but it eventually works out to say that 'the tribes of fishers and fowlers in the marshlands of the mouths of Greyflood and Isen were "Wild Men," akin in race and speech to the Drúedain of the woods of Anórien.' I definitely picture them as Mesolithic, stone and bone tools, something like this? (just stumpier)

While I adore Tal-Elmar (frustrating as it is)...one thing we Can say is the people of his village are not related to the Druedain of the coasts. The wild men get mentioned several times living in mountain caves and are pointed out to be the original inhabitants of the coasts. Hazad's people are likely remnants of pre-Haladin who settled as they went towards Beleriand, and while later incorporated into further Gondor (see the shorter/swarthier levies coming to Minas Tirith), at the time they are probably most closely related to the Men of Dunharrow. The village has fields but mentions 'knappers' a few times (changed from 'tinkers' in the earliest draft), so it seems Tolkien definitely wanted them to be neolithic.