Amazon LoTR ‘First Trailer’

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Harper
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Re: Amazon LoTR ‘First Trailer’

Post by Harper »

caedmon wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:36 am
Harper wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:58 pm Lord Of The Rings TV Show Actor Says It Will Be Multicultural, Diverse, And Feature Strong Female Characters
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/lord- ... 0-6496973/
Ok. As long as they do it well and don't pull me out of my suspension of disbelief. Sounds great. (This was something only one of the PJ flicks was able to do.)

However, there shouldn't be any hobbits in the Shire this early. That's got me a little worried. However, some 'Elf Quest' style early Hobbits could be interesting and fun. ( Once again... If they do it well and don't pull me out of my suspension of disbelief. )

Our one data point on early(ish) Hobbit-like folk (i.e. Smeagol's people) suggests a possibility of matriarchy. Of course the Shire was 800-900 years old by the time that Deagol found the ring.

I had the same thoughts about the Hobbit-folk, the settlement of the Shire and the matriarchy.

That is the only culture that I can recall where Tolkien talks about a matriarchy.

There were three ruling Queens in Numenor in the SA.

Galadriel was certainly around.

Tolkien was a man of his time. He was a boy who grew up in the Edwardian period and came of age during the War Period. He was a monarchist, a devout Catholic and put women on pedestals. The exception seems to be the shield-maiden Eowyn-and she settled down in the end, too. Tolkien portrayed powerful women, but they had a different kind of strength--and that's great.
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Re: Amazon LoTR ‘First Trailer’

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Harper wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:52 pm
caedmon wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:36 am
Harper wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:58 pm Lord Of The Rings TV Show Actor Says It Will Be Multicultural, Diverse, And Feature Strong Female Characters
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/lord- ... 0-6496973/
Ok. As long as they do it well and don't pull me out of my suspension of disbelief. Sounds great. (This was something only one of the PJ flicks was able to do.)

However, there shouldn't be any hobbits in the Shire this early. That's got me a little worried. However, some 'Elf Quest' style early Hobbits could be interesting and fun. ( Once again... If they do it well and don't pull me out of my suspension of disbelief. )

Our one data point on early(ish) Hobbit-like folk (i.e. Smeagol's people) suggests a possibility of matriarchy. Of course the Shire was 800-900 years old by the time that Deagol found the ring.

I had the same thoughts about the Hobbit-folk, the settlement of the Shire and matriarchy.

That is the only culture that I can recall where Tolkien talks about a matriarchy.

There were three ruling Queens of Numenor in the SA.

Galadriel was certainly around for three Ages.

Tolkien was a man of his time. He was a boy who grew up in the Edwardian period and came of age during the War Period. He was a monarchist, a devout Catholic and put women on pedestals. The exception seems to be the shield-maiden Eowyn-and she settled down in the end, too. Tolkien portrayed powerful women, but they had a different kind of strength--and that's great.
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Re: Amazon LoTR ‘First Trailer’

Post by Elleth »

You risk being attacked and branded.
enh, I don't think it's that controversial an opinion. Certainly I don't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers. I'd say exactly the same thing about casting a red-headed Irishman to play Zorro. :)

... worse is the missed opportunity here.
What that article is describing is just plain lazy.

One of the dusty unexplored corners that could be done quite well is this period is Annatar's subversion of the Harad.

Imagine if instead of "yay black hobbits" the writers instead fleshed out the plotline of a noble Haradrim war chief. He's frustrated at Numenorean encroachment year by year further into his lands. Numenorean slaving ships on his coasts, Numenorean armies razing his towns. A stranger comes to him, tall and gold. The stranger promises aid, and with him the war chief wins victory after victory.

He's won.

... then slowly...bit by bit... he realizes just how badly he's being played by a truly elemental evil.

But he's trapped.

How does he get his people out of the tightening snare?
What is he willing to sacrifice?
Is it even possible?

There's enough drama in just that plotline to do a true justice both to the professor's work and the best black actors of our day.
Frankly, that's a story I'd love to see. Even if the closest thing to "my people" on the screen are all bad guys.
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Re: Amazon LoTR ‘First Trailer’

Post by caedmon »

Um, well. Uhh. I can't believe I'm defending this show. This is not to say that Amazon will do it right. I remain deeply skeptical of the whole affair. Perhaps even more so, now that the filmmakers poured some pewter on a open face mold and tried to pass it off as "real-world forging techniques". (That's founding, you gits! And you're doing it wrong.)


Elleth wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:43 pm Honestly, "yay everything is diverse now" DOES ruin my suspension of disbelief. It [perhaps paradoxically] erases all diversity
I agree. And I now want to see your story of the noble Haradrim chieftain.


Elleth wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:43 pm * yes, Arda is a world where peoples were literally created, not evolved,
First, the only people that we know were literally created were the dwarves. Everyone else awoke. Processes beyond that are not speculated on as far as I know. We do have speculation that orc development was a directed species uplift.

Second, Tolkien was constantly revising and trying to bring his legendarium more closely into line with what he knew of the real world. This is at least 5,000 years before the events of the Trilogy, which is 13,000 or so years before now. I can easily envision dark skinned early hobbits, a'la Cheddar Man.‡ Considering his much touted response to Nazi censors, I see no reason that he couldn't be comfortable with dark-skinned early Stoors (although I doubt that was what he envisioned), as long as you don't mess with Hobbit's quintessentially late victorian Englishness by Bilbo's time.

I can see a few plausible scenarios where, you have wandering tribes of hobbits that are fairly different from one another. There are even now multiple distinct pygmy cultures in Africa, as well as in South East Asia, Oceania, and Australia.





‡ For those who don't know about Cheddar Man, he was a resident of the area around Cheddar England, about 9000 years ago. His skeleton is notable because:
* it is the oldest complete human skeleton in Britain
* DNA test have shown he has a direct decendant still in Cheddar, Adrian Targett
* We also have good, but not conclusive, evidence that he had dark-to-black skin, wavy hair, and blue eyes.
-Jack Horner

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Re: Amazon LoTR ‘First Trailer’

Post by Cimrandir »

caedmon wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:47 pm Second, Tolkien was constantly revising and trying to bring his legendarium more closely into line with what he knew of the real world. This is at least 5,000 years before the events of the Trilogy, which is 13,000 or so years before now. I can easily envision dark skinned early hobbits, a'la Cheddar Man.‡ Considering his much touted response to Nazi censors, I see no reason that he couldn't be comfortable with dark-skinned early Stoors (although I doubt that was what he envisioned), as long as you don't mess with Hobbit's quintessentially late victorian Englishness by Bilbo's time.

I can see a few plausible scenarios where, you have wandering tribes of hobbits that are fairly different from one another. There are even now multiple distinct pygmy cultures in Africa, as well as in South East Asia, Oceania, and Australia.





‡ For those who don't know about Cheddar Man, he was a resident of the area around Cheddar England, about 9000 years ago. His skeleton is notable because:
* it is the oldest complete human skeleton in Britain
* DNA test have shown he has a direct decendant still in Cheddar, Adrian Targett
* We also have good, but not conclusive, evidence that he had dark-to-black skin, wavy hair, and blue eyes.

Just wanted to pop in here and say, I absolutely love your concept of early hobbits being a sort of pseudo-Cheddar Man in appearance. That’s such a cool idea that I’m definitely seeing it that way in my head now. A dark-skinned Harfoot just makes sense and I can even see it surviving into the Third Age amongst certain families honestly.
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Re: Amazon LoTR ‘First Trailer’

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Elleth wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:43 pm Honestly, "yay everything is diverse now" DOES ruin my suspension of disbelief.
Just popped in to say how eloquently this post sums up my feelings.

There is so much debate and argument out there over this and merely voicing an opinion can see you turned on.

This while thread is an example of why I like these forums so much.
But the white fury of the Northmen burned the hotter, and more skilled was their knighthood with long spears and bitter. Fewer were they but they clove through the Southrons like a fire-bolt in a forest.
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Re: Amazon LoTR ‘First Trailer’

Post by Harper »

The new ROP trailer released yesterday:

https://youtu.be/tWv5RqWSYuQ

Some of it looks intriguing.
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