Middle Earth Ranger Forum

This last winter’s -44° campout with my scout troop has me wondering if I could do it it Middle Earth gear. Pondering a lossoth kit. Thinking of melding aspects of Mongol & Yupik dress. Historically, do any old world cultures use leather as primary clothing?

It seems that the Sami did, but not in several centuries, so I can’t see what it was like. Anyone else?

Ray Mears did an episode of Bushcraft in Sweden, and interviews a Saami woman on how they make the leather for their clothes. Claims to use a birch solution, which sounds like barktan...but doesn't seem to involve months of slow soaking, and is finished with hand twisting to soften like you would braintan - and the shot of the twisted material looks exactly how braintan would look. I just checked and it's still on YT - tanning section starts at around 45 minutes in. There's also a shot at 58 minutes of someone using a waist beam to scrape a hide. I wish they would specify if the grain layer is removed along with the hair because I can't imagine a full-grain hide quick soaked in birch liquor and twisted would come out anything like buckskin. Plus the bark wouldn't have the fats/oils that braintan pretty much always uses. Hrmmm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKKYtp-AF6o

What type of clothing are you thinking of making in leather? Whole kit and caboodle? Trousers, tunic, and cloak? Just the cloak? Just the tunic? That could help narrow it down. I know of at least one animal skin cloak and if I remember correctly, some fragments that have been interpreted as a tunic. I'll start hunting down those sources for you.

Cimrandir wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 12:54 pm What type of clothing are you thinking of making in leather? Whole kit and caboodle? Trousers, tunic, and cloak? Just the cloak? Just the tunic? That could help narrow it down. I know of at least one animal skin cloak and if I remember correctly, some fragments that have been interpreted as a tunic. I'll start hunting down those sources for you.

Something along the lines of a buckskin Mongolian Deel:



perhaps as worn by this Oroqin man (minus the very Chinese feeling decoration):

Here are some other Siberian and Russian Far Eastern peoples that I am thinking about as models for Lossoth clothing.

Those are incredible, and definitely carry healthy inspiration for Lossoth. Can't wait to see where this goes!

caedmon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:51 pm Something along the lines of a buckskin Mongolian Deel:

That looks really functional, although many have said the leather, while it provides some armor protection against rain to a degree, it's not very good at keeping one warm. I have several leather jackets and they make me sweat in somewhat warm weather because they don't breath, but they don't really hold the warm in cold weather.

Greg wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:50 am Those are incredible, and definitely carry healthy inspiration for Lossoth. Can't wait to see where this goes!

That makes two of us! The Sámi are amazing, their bond with the world around them is a real privilege to behold and if Caed can manage even a tenth of that this project will amaze.

The young man with the braided lasso and the fellow with the pipe are great inspiration. Did you ever make progress on your 'pan-Northern' design language? I could easily see these decorated with some authentic M-e motifs.

Tom_Ranger wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:49 am That looks really functional, although many have said the leather, while it provides some armor protection against rain to a degree, it's not very good at keeping one warm. I have several leather jackets and they make me sweat in somewhat warm weather because they don't breath, but they don't really hold the warm in cold weather.

As the titles specifies, this thread is discussing buckskin or braintanned leather. Unlike full-grain bark or chrome-tan leather like your jackets, braintan is made by removing the grain (the tough outer layer), which when combined with membraning the flesh side, results in essentially a fabric-like sheet of fluffy fibers. This offers zero rain protection (it soaks up moisture like a sponge - i.e. 'chamois cloth' was originally a split (grain-removed) oil-tanned goat hide) but is full of airspace that breathes, insulates, and cuts the wind.

Udwin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:27 pm The young man with the braided lasso and the fellow with the pipe are great inspiration. Did you ever make progress on your 'pan-Northern' design language? I could easily see these decorated with some authentic M-e motifs.

Tom_Ranger wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:49 am That looks really functional, although many have said the leather, while it provides some armor protection against rain to a degree, it's not very good at keeping one warm. I have several leather jackets and they make me sweat in somewhat warm weather because they don't breath, but they don't really hold the warm in cold weather.

As the titles specifies, this thread is discussing buckskin or braintanned leather. Unlike full-grain bark or chrome-tan leather like your jackets, braintan is made by removing the grain (the tough outer layer), which when combined with membraning the flesh side, results in essentially a fabric-like sheet of fluffy fibers. This offers zero rain protection (it soaks up moisture like a sponge - i.e. 'chamois cloth' was originally a split (grain-removed) oil-tanned goat hide) but is full of airspace that breathes, insulates, and cuts the wind.

Ok, so it sounds like it's good against cold? I have been wondering if the boy with the lasso is not buckskin, but Hair In fur. Obviously the guy with the pipe is hair out. (And I just HAD to show the lady with the salmon leather deel. That's just to awesome. ) THis is turning into a set of Summer & Winter clothes.

I have not made headway on a pan-northern design language. I have done a whole lot with Numenorean design, and how it extrapolates to the Third Age, especially among the Black Numeoreans ( the Mordor Flying Corps is helpful there.), and Gondor (which is less good, we don't have anything contemporary/ late third age there. )
But pan-Northern is JUST HARD. Too many variables to extrapolate from a paucity of source material. And then where to add historic Germanic/Celtic styles as well as Central Asian borrowings? Especially when the question comes up, what is translator interpolation? Can we really extrapolate migration era design back 10,000 years. Or, is it like the languages of the books, translated to feel like it would have? And then the whole faerie / immortal overlay bringing a DEEP DEEP CONSERVATISM into the whole mix.



Aarrgh!

Udwin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:27 pm As the titles specifies, this thread is discussing buckskin or braintanned leather. Unlike full-grain bark or chrome-tan leather like your jackets, braintan is made by removing the grain (the tough outer layer), which when combined with membraning the flesh side, results in essentially a fabric-like sheet of fluffy fibers. This offers zero rain protection (it soaks up moisture like a sponge - i.e. 'chamois cloth' was originally a split (grain-removed) oil-tanned goat hide) but is full of airspace that breathes, insulates, and cuts the wind.

Nice. I did not know that.

This may be a dumb question, but can you waterproof braintan/buckskin (using mink oil or something similar)? I have several hides in the freezer, and I really don't know what for sure I want to do with them, other than perhaps a jerkin.

If you waterproof it it will no longer be breathable, so it would end up not being better than any other leather, Greg made a very nice jerkin a few years ago with braintan, and from what he has said it performs well, you're probably best leaveing it as it is

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