Sword suspension system?

[Eric C]

Hi all,
Here at the Cartrette house, we're all getting our kit ready for the upcoming Highland Games and the ranger moot we've started planning there. I'm working on one haversack (at least three different colored leathers in it), then I have another haversack to make for my son. The tunics I spoke of making a while ago will have to wait.

Anyway, there's another issue: Decent sword suspension. I have my belt that has been shown in all of my pics. I'm quite happy with the belt, but all I have to hang my sword from is a leather ring that slides onto the belt. Pretty sad really . The tip of the sword ends up dragging the ground. Nice trail for the orcses to follow.

So, does anybody have any good patterns/ideas for making a good sword frog that will slide onto my existing belt? I have plenty of 6-8 oz leather to make it from and MAY have some that is a bit thicker. I'm not looking to buy a frog, but to make one. Thanks.

Cheers,
Eric

[Peter Remling]

For a multiple suspension system: cut out one piece of leather that will cover the belt covering both sides and has room to stitch together and two other pieces that are apprxly 1/2" wide and are apprxly four inches long for the front one and 6 inches long for the back one. You will also need one more piece of leather that will go around the scabbard snugly and still have room to stitch the straps on.

You can stitch the straps directly to the belt piece and the scabbard piece or you can use three steel o rings which will make it move more naturally.



The negative aspect of multiple suspension system is that it has a lot more things to get snagged in the woods.

The single suspension frog is easier to make but doesn't look as attractive.

Draw this out on paper and tweek the dimensions by testing it on you scabbard and belt before transfering it to leather.

Single suspesion system: Take a 16x 10" piece of leather( your right handed so ) starting on the right hand side of the leather, draw a line 2 " from the end from the top 6 inches down. From this point draw a line 45 degrees, down to the left all the way to the end of you leather. Useing a ruler draw a parallel line 2 inches wide from under your diagonel line back to the edge of the leather piece.

What you will now have is a odd angled back ward L, with an odd angled end on the bottom left of you piece. Cut out this piece stain it and decorate it as desired. Trim off the odd angle end at the bottom left so that the top ofit meets up with the bottom, wrap the bottom left around your scabbard and mark and stitch or rivet. Wrap the top piece around your sword belt, mark and stitch or rivet and your done.

[R.D.Metcalf]

Here are some interesting ideas from Peter Johnsson.
Probably well out of your period of focus and not a frog ,but
More or less Viking/Early Medieval but some interesting suspensions
none the less: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=12131
Just scroll down to Peter's sketches
And here is one more:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=8974

Maybe someone will find these useful

[Peter Remling]

RD: Nice find, when I think of Peter Johnsson stuff I generally think of the intergral belt suspension, which while, historical and great looking is not the easiest project for novices.

I like the first one- easy keeps the sword at an angle and doesn't stick out too much to get caught on brush.
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/download. ... 544e71c005

This one anyone can do with great results!

[Eric C]

Great links and information, guys! Pete, that last link gives me a message "You are not allowed to view, download or link to this site." I wanted to see it too!

And could you send me an illustration of the single suspension system you talked about above?

[Eledhwen]

I prefer baldrics myself, but they don't work for everyone or all swords. Currently I use a kind of frog that laces in the back...so it can fit a variety of scabbards. It has D rings on either side so can be hooked or buckled to belts, baldrics or what have you.

I need lighter blades than many other folk, and prefer them, so baldrics do tend to work well for me.

Eledhwen

[Mirimaran]

I tend toward a baldric myself. The last couple of years, I've carried my coustille so it's small enough not to have to worry about a suspension system, but if I carry something a little bigger, I usually use a two strap suspension. If you go by Tractor Supply over in the section with bridles and such, you can find straps with buckles that convert quite easily for use with a scabbard. Speaking of the Games, I got out my ballock knife and gave it a good cleaning:

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Sc ... 2363c.html

my wife found it on ebay and it was filthy! The blade had what looked like tape residue and the leather scabbard needed some TLC. The lady who sold it though it was a fish fillet knife! LOL anyway it cleaned up really nice and I will carry it to the Games and Ranger moot this year. I've made a new pouch and my first possibles bag to carry as well. Looking forward to meeting you and your family, Eric!

[Eric C]

Eledhwen: I'm very seriously thinking about using a baldric for my Clontarf if I ever finish the scabbard for it. A baldric will make a sword hang straight down for concealment under a cloak (a no-no according to state laws though ). At least the scabbard/baldric I made for my gladius has that effect.

Ken: That's a good looking knife. We look forward to meeting you and yours as well. We who are planning to meet need to start PMing/e-mailing each other to set down the details of our meeting. I'll explain in the thread about the Carolina ranger moot later.

[Eledhwen]

If you use four rings instead of only two, you can control how the baldric attaches to the scabbard...that is, you can gain tilt. In Roman reenactment a lot of the Legionaries use two rings on the rear edge of the scabbard and one ring on the front...and the length of the split strap in the rear determines the angle of tilt.

I prefer the shortsword hang straight down..and in fact I wear them much higher than most folk with the pommel nearly in my armpit..it is easier to reach and doesn't move around much...it also accords with much of the evidence from ancient sculpture.

With longer swords I favor curved blades; either an elven blade like Hadhafang or my shamshir, which will tilt anyway given the rings on the scabbard.

Massachusetts allows concealed weapons with a permit...as long as they aren't swords. Or knives. Or tomahawks. Belt axes are okay. Don't ask me to explain it. Essentially, I can carry a concealed gun since I have a permit, but not a bladed weapon..since anything with a blade more than say 6 - 8" long is illegal as is anything with double edges.

We leave them unsharpened, and we never call them swords. They are costume jewelry or theatrical props. As long as you aren't being a twit, that's usually okay.

Anyway, I do prefer the baldrix and I think I even have a way to use one with my shamshir, which is most excellent.

Eledhwen

[R.D.Metcalf]

I prefer wearing a sword high from a baldrick as well. I'm currently fitting a scabbard with migration era influences, for that very reason. Once its strapped it will hang like the baldrics on the Sutton Hoo plates, this is the most comfortable way I've found to carry sword on foot or on horseback.

The later type suspensions look really cool but swing around too much, if you look at period illustrations these folk always have their left hand holding the sword in place. I like'm high and belted close, its faster to draw and more comfortable to carry.

[Peter Remling]

And could you send me an illustration of the single suspension system you talked about above?

In order to view the pics RD referenced, you might have to me a member of MyArmoury, not sure but it might be the case.

This is the frog I was mentioning, I drew this to 1/2 scale but you can see how it works:
Drawn out on paper
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... e869-1.jpg

Cut out the reversed L

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... ure870.jpg

Trim the bottom left piece straight

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... ure871.jpg

Fold the top arm over your belt and attach to itself, then fold the bottom arm around your scabbard and attach to itself.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... ure872.jpg

Very simple to do.

[Eledhwen]

From what I've experienced...in other places mind...having a shortsword on a baldric carried high and close is comfortable, but also stays out of the way of brush very nicely.

As for the lower slung longer swords, you're spot on with that R.D.

I'm still trying to sort out how to sling the shamshir high and close.

I've gotten to the point where I simply don't like the weapon hanging from my belt. Spoiled I guess. I'm not as up on the medieval portions; my reenactment participation is last third of the 1st Century Imperial Roman, particularly the Second Adiutrix (Marines of the Ravenna fleet), Celts of similar period, and Post-Roman Britain, Romano-British.

And being a Ranger of course.

So baldric use is pretty familiar for me...used to my gear I guess. Baldrics all the way here.

Eledhwen

[Peter Remling]

Personally I attached a belt and then use a shoulder strap to keep it in place, otherwise it slides down and off my butt.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... e108-2.jpg

So I guess I'm kinda both.

Before I started making the shoulder strap I'd tie the belt in place through my maile. The shoulder strap is much more comfortable.

[Eric C]

And could you send me an illustration of the single suspension system you talked about above?

In order to view the pics RD referenced, you might have to me a member of MyArmoury, not sure but it might be the case.

This is the frog I was mentioning, I drew this to 1/2 scale but you can see how it works:
Drawn out on paper
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... e869-1.jpg

Cut out the reversed L


http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... ure870.jpg

Trim the bottom left piece straight

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... ure871.jpg

Fold the top arm over your belt and attach to itself, then fold the bottom arm around your scabbard and attach to itself.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn46 ... ure872.jpg

Very simple to do.

Nope, still not getting it. Could you send me the dagger so maybe I can understand?

Seriously, that was what I was thinking, but I've learned that if it seems too simple, I'd better start asking questions.
Thanks.

[Willrett]

Nope, still not getting it. Could you send me the dagger so maybe I can understand?

Seriously, that was what I was thinking, but I've learned that if it seems too simple, I'd better start asking questions.
Thanks.

no you should asked for a sword with the whole setup already finished for you.

This is a great topic guys please keep adding to it since I will need all this info in a few months hopefully.